Tony Reid: Rattling the Cage: An Interview with Greg Jackson

Posted on 2012-05-12 by Tony Reid

Tony Reid-So how did you go from the “kicking tree” in your backyard to building one of, if not the, most elite, successful gyms in all of MMA?


Greg Jackson-That is a very good question. I guess a lot of luck. I was very lucky to be able to work with a number of amazing fighters from the bare knuckle era, the early Grapplers Quest days, the King of the Cage and of course the UFC. I was surrounded by a number of great athletes and coaches and I was in the right place at the right time.Tony Reid-So how did you go from the “kicking tree” in your backyard to building one of, if not the, most elite, successful gyms in all of MMA?




Tony Reid-You began studying martial arts while growing up in a tough neighborhood in Albuquerque, NM. What disciplines did you study early on?

Greg Jackson-Martial Arts for me were always a tool to survive. I always say that I didn’t watch a Bruce Lee movie and get inspired; I just didn’t want to get beat up. That was my motivation to begin training. I got good at defending myself and other people wanted to know how I was doing what I was doing. I opened my first school at 17 to teach my friends and other people that were interested in defending thems
elves the way I was and it just snowballed from there.

Tony Reid-What were your thoughts when you watched UFC 1 and Royce Gracie/Gracie Jiu Jitsu? How did that event inspire you?

Greg Jackson-The members of the Gracie Family are just true innovators. They are amazing people. They were PhDs and I was in kindergarten. I had to work to catch up. It has been one of the great treats of my life to be able to meet some of my heroes like Renzo and Royce and other great guys that helped shape an art that we all do now.

Tony Reid-You have developed 10 plus world champions on the biggest stages of the sport, your gym and name are known around the world, so what is your proudest moment as a coach/trainer?

Greg Jackson-There have been so many thousands and thousands of moments it’s too hard to pick one. I think that I’m just proud to be associated with them (the fighters). I’m proud I get to do what I love and help my friends out.

Tony Reid-With all the success comes scrutiny, whether it comes from fans, fighters or even the UFC brass. How do you handle the negativity thrown your way and being under a microscope all the time? It seems like every action, every word gets international attention.

Greg Jackson-The whole thing is just kind of silly to me. The people that say those things don’t know me. Fame is a weird thing, not that I’m famous at all really but it’s an odd thing because what you have are people that are experts on you that don’t really know you. I never take it too personally unless its one of my friends, when it was Rashad (Evans) that was very hard. Overall most of the stuff they say isn’t true so it doesn’t really bother me. With any kind of success you are going to get that stuff. It has its job, it entertains people. If you are entertained by hating me every morning, more power to you, get entertained.

Tony Reid-With many MMA gyms considering themselves a family, Jackson’s included, what was the most difficult aspect of the fallout between Jon Jones and Rashad Evans? Do you see a similar issue on the horizon with Carlos Condit and GSP? With what you have learned from that experience (Jones/Evans) that will help you avoid that type of situation in the future?

Greg Jackson-A lot of that situation was my fault. I didn’t have the proper protocols in place. In all the years I have been doing it, almost 20 years now, it had never happened. I should have had more foresight and put something together beforehand. It happened, we got through it and I still love Rashad to death. There is going to be no drama with Condit and GSP. They will fight and they will be friends afterward. We have put protocols in place so that situation will not happen again.

Tony Reid-When was the last time you were called GREGORY THOMAS JACKSON!

Greg Jackson-That would be my mother if I got in trouble as a kid. Its funny you say that because a lot of my cornering comes from my parents. My dad would never yell at me. My mom would yell and me and whack me. My dad would never yell. He would just treat you like you were a dumbass. “Here is what you did, here are the consequences…”I would rather he hit me (Laughs). I was lucky to have my parents and a lot of my cornering comes from them.

Tony Reid-You quote many historically significant leaders and influential people on a regular basis. What is your favorite quote?

Greg Jackson-There are so many great ones from so many people much smarter than me, to pick one it would be kind of a disservice to the others. I try to live by the motto of relentless improvement. I want to relentlessly try to improve myself every day.

Tony Reid-I read that you have said that MMA in general and the Octagon specifically are laboratories to you. Can you elaborate on that? What is working now and what s not working in the lab?

Greg Jackson-In the spirit of the arms race in which we all live, I can’t say exactly (laughs). That’s what’s fun about this. We have empirical data in the form of immediate feedback. We don’t have to wait or imagine what works and what doesn’t. In one on one combat we have this immediate feedback that makes it such an exciting time to be alive and be a martial artist. We have this huge arms race and all these brilliant minds working on this problem trying to figure out how we can get to be the absolute best in one on one combat. It’s just an amazing time to be alive

Tony Reid-What does being an artist mean to you?

Greg Jackson-There is a fighting art, there is a coaching art, and there is an art in everything you do if you do it well enough. The artist is to understand that what you are doing is part of a bigger picture of creativity, meaning that there are these ubiquitous principles that you see in music, dance, and architecture in everything. These principles govern all creativity, martial arts and combat included. I use Bach as an great example with the structures that Bach puts in his cannons the way he inverts them and flips them we do exactly that stuff in the martial arts. It’s not an analogy, where it’s this esoteric “be like water” thing; it’s exactly the same thing. I think that’s what makes art cool.

Tony Reid-You have so many interesting ideas, thoughts and beliefs that we would be hard pressed to cover 1% of them here but lets finish with your thoughts on “Ritualized Combat”.

Greg Jackson-There is inter and intra species combat. The culture gives us certain parameters or the environment gives us certain parameters. You have tools available and a problem to solve. With gladiatorial combat it’s a one on one ritualized combat. It’s like snakes wrestling. It’s non lethal. There are so many positive things to it. It makes you grow as a person, it gives you focus. It has all this intrinsic social value. It’s a part of what the martial arts is as long as you get the whole picture, as long as you aren’t just training to slug it out and you are on a path to something bigger. That is very important. So that ritualized combat has to encompass all those things that make competition great like being a good sport, pushing your body’s limits, all these things. It should also have some kind of social value to it. Because it’s ritualized, because all of these people come to see it. In Rome the gladiators used to fight to the death, sometimes. One of the aspects of that is that a Roman could learn to be brave by watching a person accept death and be brave about it. So Romans actually were learning how to be brave in the face of death by watching these gladiators accept death and be brave about it. Today, you get to watch how to be courageous, how to kick that gear in. That’s why people get so excited by exciting fights. They get inspired by it. So it has that social value and then the outside of the Octagon the training is keeping respect for the traditional martial arts alive, keeping all of these things alive is very important as well. So the ritualization of it is kind of a safe way to fight. As long as it brings this social value to the combat I think it’s a positive, effective social outlet and really helps society out in general.